I am a newer rider  ,   while i have had my license for over a year,  I havent been able to get a lot of seat time in .  I am still scared of traffic,   but  my question is  why do I have trouble  left turning on the move,  no trouble from a stop,  and   I  go way too  wide  on right turns from a stop and  no problem with rolling right turns?  Am I the only one with this problem?  And any advice to help me?  I took the course and know  the "look where you want to be"  .  Thanks

hiya Dolly,

Key is TURN your head where ya want to go. Speed (not meaning fast but momentum, is your friend) Totally over exagerate your head turn.

Find an open area and go practice. Stay positive & COMMIT. I've got a ton of miles & still have the same problem as you.

Easier said than done but just keep on it.

Google RIDE LIKE A PRO on you tube. It will give you a lot of insight on turning & advice.

Safe riding & lot of sMiles your way.

Good to be afraid of traffic-always keep track of cages-especially the ones behind you. Best way to get over turning fears is go to a large parking lot and practice. When you get back in traffic always look to where you are going-never look at the road

Hi Dolly,

What FW said about looking where you want to go is KEY in making turns, especially while riding at speed. There is nothing you can do about where you are, you can only change where you are going, and it is just natural to to tend to go where you are looking. On twisty roads the best thing you can do is look as far into the turn as possible.

Many new riders have problems with right turns from a stop. It's got a lot to do with confidence and how comfortable you are with your bike. The problem with the right turn from a stop is you need to start turning immediately. And since you turn by leaning you need to get comfortable with getting you feet on the pegs, lean, and accelerate through the turn. This is why you are ok with rolling right turns, because you feel safer leaning the bike when its moving, and with left turns from a stop, because you have the width of a lane to get up to speed and feel comfortable leaning.

It will take a little bit before you get comfortable leaning your bike immediately after putting your feet up, but once you do, it will become second nature. I actually love making right turns from a stop. It's a cool feeling to lean the bike at slow speed and then throttle through the turn as the bike straightens up.

I really recommend that you take a riders course. They spend a lot of time working on the slow speed stuff - which is most new riders have most of there problems. In the mean time, practice as much as you can in controlled situations.

I learned something called counter steering. It sounds like it won't work, but at speed push the handle bars in the opposite direction and the bike will fall in turning. It's easy, but does require practice. Once you get used to it you can pick the line you want to take in a curve and utilize lean and counter steering to maintain that line.
I don't feel comfortable in traffic either. Especially in bigger cities with 3 or more lanes going in 1 direction. Try to stay out of their blind spot. Enjoy riding and we all have to learn.

Interesting post, from what i read your having no difficulty from a stop doing a left turn,yet having difficulty doing a left turn while rolling at speed? and the right turns no good from a stop,ur going wide on rolling rite turns.

In my opinion your spending too much time worrying about the actual turn and not paying attention as to where you are placing yourself in relation to approaching the turn before you reach the actual point where you initate the turn.
Try this, make sure to position you & bike in the left half of the lane as you approach a right turn,give yourself plenty of lean angle area,between you and the right hand curb(wether stopped or rolling)..Same for the left turns,it sounds like you already do this for the left turns as you described no problem with left turn from a stop,your probably positioning yorself for those left turns by starting it from the rite half of the left turn lane.

Remember the more throttle applied the bike wants to stand up less throttle the bike wants to lean over,take your time & practice the approach to your turns and placing you and the bike in a good spot to make the turn feel more smooth,when you begin the lean at slow speed into the turn.Eventually you can practice other aspects of steering in turns like standing the bike up in the turn to avoid road hazards, a very handy technique to pick up,yet thats down the road,worry first about getting your approach's rite and steering where your looking,the rest will come wih more saddle time.
stay safe n enjoy the ride!!!

Practice is the key to all things. The parking lot is a great place. You don't need to be out on the road, in traffic, if you're not comfortable with any aspect of your ability. The rider's course is a must. And a word of caution:

Taking specific advice from "experienced" riders is not always the best way to go. The key here is "experienced" riders understand what they are doing BECAUSE they have experience. With no disrespect to LCstrat, counter steering involves initiating a lean (in a corner) and is not for steering your motorcycle in the true sense of the word. It is also an intuitive (unconscious) manuever a rider (especially a beginner) doesn't have to put much thought into. The best and only advice any experienced rider should give you is "practice and take the rider's course". Oh, we can tell you stories of the stupid sheite stuff we've done and the mistakes we've made, but they only begin to mean something after you've had some quality time in the saddle.

Peace

#1 - #50 TAKE A MSF TYPE COURSE

That said:
Turning at slow speed is a function of the design of the ride - My Ulysses has a fat turning radius built in - When making a right turn from a stop on to a narrow country road have to factor that in & check traffic both directions because it will make me over the yellow line.

Turning at speed is much more a matter of physics - Am told the transition speed is 22 MPH - At speed you actually want to turn the bars OPPOSITE to the direction you want to go ("contra-steering"
Since no new rider can actually bring them self to do that, what the MSF suggests is push down on the side of the bar on side you want to turn into. - To turn right push down on the right end of the bar - Turn left left end.
This leans the ride & physics take over. - KEEP THE THROTTLE ON WHILE DOING THIS
At speed you can steer by leaning your body but personally do not suggest that until you have mastered the "push down" method

Not going to take the time to find them now but there are a lot of videos on YouTube - Search on "contra steering" or "counter steering"

And, oh-yeh, start searching out a MSF type course

ALWAYS be afraid of traffic! But not to the point of being terrified... always look for escape routes and let the cages have the lanes they choose, after all they're WAY bigger than you and your bike and the best thing you can do is just gas it and stay ahead of a lot of trouble spots... now turning, well take those riders courses, they definitely help out and get you reacting instead of thinking... when you start riding more you'll have plenty of time to think about a lot of scenarios. 1st and foremost, do only what you feel comfortable doing because it's easy to get over your head especially as a new rider.

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I have taken the course and i was fine with the turning, i also had a smaller bike and was fine, the sporty is a bit faster and heavier, I think I feel the lean more on it. My son (who is 25 and invinsible. or so he thinks and has been riding for a long time) says I over think . Once the Iowa weather gets nice, my plan is to do a lot more parking lot. We also had the sporty lowered at the end of the season. I have only ridden it home from the shop and it felt way better. So that may help too, I dont go anywhere I dont feel comfortable with, the main roads with heavy traffic, i tend to stick more to the back roads, Love the interstate, but only during the lower traffic times. I think i just dont have enough practice on it yet. But thanks again for all the great advice. Dolly

Well just keep practicing. I don't know if you go to empty parking lots to practice, but if not you should. You can focus on practicing your turns without having other thinks making you nervous. As Black stated above, you need to do what you feel comfortable with, and practice will help you feel comfortable with all aspects of riding.

Your comments prompted me to go ahead and set up my account. I have been reading CF for some months.

When I started riding again I had the same issue.

I forgot some rules that I knew some 35 years ago.
My problem was so bad that I was almost afraid to go around a curve.

1. You go where you look.
2. Don't try to drive with your eye on the front wheel. Pick your route through a curve. My eyes are around 12 seconds ahead of me in a curve. Less on tigher curves but in every case let your eyes plot your track ahead of you.


Remember, if you look at the edege of the road that is where you will wind up.
Plot your curve with your eyes, relax and take the curve at a speed that is safe and comfortable for you.
Don't try to keep up with experienced drivers until you have some time under your belt.

Getting those rule back in my mind turned riding into something I love to do again.
Now I feel like the pig in the commercial. weeeeee, we, we, weeeeeee.

Dolly, I know that you have taken the MSF course and passed, and there is no shame in taking it a second or third time. I've taken the ERC like three times, just for reminders and re train myself after them bad habits that we all tend to pick up.
Hell yes riding on the streets is 10 times different than riding on the range which is a controlled environment, that I believe we all can agree upon. You've lowered the bike, already which is too bad really, for it does affect the lean angles, but the good news is ya can always "raise" it again. Turning in motion and from a dead stop are going to feel different for they are different. Also how far you have to reach may have an effect as well on turning. As you are making your dead stop right turn the handle bar on the left side is the furthest way from you, therefore possibly effecting the confident clutch movements. On left turns throttle confidence may be at risk from the stretch. This can be fixed with new bars and such, or by continue practicing, practicing, and practicing.
Now, I've been called the Hilter of Motorcycle Coaches. Why, Well I walked. ran next to the novice as she was learning. What I did was, A made her sit in the drive and hit the horn, no looking down, she had to look at me right in my eyes as she did this, she did roll one inch until she could hit all turn signals, lights, horn, ft brake, clutch, Back Break, Switch gears, and hit reserve without looking she had to be staring at me the whole time. Why Familiar with the bike, make things happen like hit the turn signal with out thought so it didn't efffect her turning. Or turning on reserve on the fly is a must know, it really is ya don't want to be searching for it.
Next, anyone can roll a bike in a straight line down the road, but can ya stop it, change gears, start and stop, so I'd run next to her and yell give me 3rd gear, then I'd yell stop. she'd stop and better be back to 1st before putting her foot down. We did this until she could roll, change gears, stop, slow then speed up, stop and be back at 1st gear and ready to continue before Hittler would coach any further. I know lots of practice, practice and more practice. She was to practice this around her little neighbor hood. Then we worked on turning in a Cul de Sac, round and round tighter and tighter, then the other way, then figure 8 with in the cul de sac, well we went a little out of the cul de sac for that but you get the idea. Once she felf comfortable with all that then she had to do this at speed and followed me around the development, then I'd follow her, one this silly game of follow the leader was done, and she wanted to hit the street. I let her pull out on to the streets first, told her take your time, and go when you want to go, I will follow or will not be too far behind.We took the streets of Jacksonville going places and making turns at lights and such before we ever tried crossing streets, or making lefts, we did that until she was most comfortalbe then we went to left and well with in 4 weeks she called me one Saturday and said Tumbles I rode to work and the traffic here is really bad what should I do. I said ride home, she said I don't know, I asked her if she wanted me to come out and get her, she said NO! So we sat there on the phone and came up with a less traffic route to get home from Ponte Vedra. I think 2 months later we went to Charleston SC to visit a friend, then went to North Carolina for the moustache ride. She took off and flew. First, though she spent a lot of time getting to know her ride, before hitting the street, she was confident is coming to stops, fast and slow, sudden stops, turning shifting the whole nine yards before she went out and about. So the big secret is this.........
Read what you have learned in class, retake if need be, practice, practice, practice and just when ya thought you couldn't practice any more practice some more. Get comfortable with the bike and controlls before you even start it, be sure things are a good fit, I think some harley dealers have perfect fit things where the staff can help you out with reach and such. The desire to do it, and the gumshon to go out and do it, for no one can do it for you. If you want it you got to work it. There's more than a good chance your going to drop it, maybe more than once, there's a chance your going to run over a mailbox and take out a birdhouse, there's a chance you could get hit by a car, there's a chance that you can brake a bone, there's also a chance that one day you may not come home. So think deeply and be sure your ready for the comitment its going to take to cruise the streets calm, relaxed, and in control. You are the Captian of your own ship and now its time to act the part, first take the responsibility of practice, practice and more paractice oh and did I mention Practice, practice and more practice. have a great one "T"

oh yes there if one more thing, when turning Keep them knees stuck to the tank, don't let them hang out there somewhere, pretend they are ducktaped to the tank in all turns, if you need to picture me standing there twillling a roll of ducktape then do so. The knees tight will make a difference. have a great one "T"

T, I have been seriously thinking of taking the course again. I can do the turning, except too wide on the stopped right turns, I just dont feel confidant doing it. I am planning practice , practice , practice once the weather is nicer. I have dropped the bike, as I couldnt reach the ground flat footed, the lowering gave me a slight bend in my knees. We also put a reduced reach seat on it. That helped also. the only problem i have with shifting is at 25 mph 2nd seems to race a little and 3rd lugs a little, so i generally use 2nd, Hubby and i have talked about lots of practice, since the bike will handle different. It will also help that the road construction here is done now, so our neighborhood has less traffic now. The street close to our house is a slow curvy road. I like to ride it.and with less traffic i can ride it more. And thanks for the reach idea, I will really payattention to my reach on the corners and see if different bars might be needed. I am going to get this corning thing down pat. I love riding. I want to be able to ride to work, much more practice will be needed for that , because it will require a left turn from a stop on a hill turning onto a hill and a rolling right turn half way up the hill. But for sure my plan is PRACTICE and then more practice. Oh and i DO keeps my knees in tight on the corners Thanks everyone

And there is a parking lot close by my house that has a square grassy area in the middle, perfect to practicing turning .

Well Dolly you got lots of good advice, and as you see most of it is tied to practice, practice, practice to where it all becomes second nature. Just remember to get that practice in a controlled situation as much as you can. And yes taking the course again if you are not comfortable is a GREAT idea. And when your done with that and feeling a little more comfortable, take an advanced riding course. When I used to race I spent every off season in riding courses, learning the same stuff over and over again. I still take the advanced rider and defensive riding courses every few years, and I've got well over 30 years and 1/2 million miles in the saddle.

One thing I will correct - and not meaning to contradict you "T" - is there is nothing wrong with lowering you bike so it fits you. You NEED to have a bike that fits and you feel comfortable on... stopped and moving. Lowering a bike an inch or two will have VERY little effect on the center of gravity and actually a lower center of gravity will make the bike more stable when leaning. (We worked hard on our race bikes to get the center of gravity as low as possible.) The benefit of having a bike that fits you will far out weigh the minimal effect of lowering it an inch or two. hell my bike drops that much when I load it for a rally!

Just stick with it and ride within your comfort zone.

Dolly ... I noticed that most everyone talked about practicing your low speed turns. And, its all great advice. I too would say to find an open parking lot and spend a couple of hours at least practicing your turns. But one other small bit of advice to keep your eye on (pun intended) is your vision point on high speed turns. Don't look down at where you are turning when out on the road. Keep your vision point at least 100 to 150 feet ahead .. towards where you are going. If you keep your vision point too close to your front wheel, it will make you go wide in the turns. That's what will cause you to lose confidence in any turns .. low or high speed.

some good advice here Dolly, my two cents worth now.... pick up a small trials bike....piece of crap couple of bucks worth..something that just about rides... practice on a bit of grass (not the smokin' kind) or beach or gravel...falling off and learning the wrongs are sometimes the best lessons. thats how I started all them years ago, and it worked for me..and my kids and a few friends too.

What lucky said: It's best to fit the bike to you so you're standing flat footed (sorry T) and once you get the hang of it and it becomes a reaction over thinking you'll be able to ride anything after awhile.

Thanks to all of you , lots of great advice. I do understand looking ahead, since i accidently looked at the curb when coming out of the alley and almost clipped it. There are a lot of great people on this site. I think i will get ahold of ABATE and see if there are any opening in the class.

I started on a grass track at age 9...then by age 11 I was out on the road on a small bike...Then by age 13 I had an Arial Square Four 1000cc. fastest bike in Britain way back in the day, we were doing coast runs (70+miles each way) by age 14...Then when I was old enough to LEGALLY be on the road all I could afford to insure was a 70cc Zundapp, funny little thing with 3 gears, I passed my test on that...lol...didn't take me too long to get the 1000cc insured though...never looked back after that...

Point is, all the above advice is what I WOULD have said had I been a member here longer than I actually have been, they already told you what I would have said, no point me going over same as they said...the reason I am jumping in now is that if you can get on grass, or sand, or ANY softer loose surface you will soon realise just how far you can actually lean a bike without having an off...then back on the road you will get the hang of the turns that are troubling you...they already said the right word.....Practice, try cutting in tighter at a balanced walking pace by keeping the throttle medium open so it aint revving too high, slip the clutch slightly and have your back brake on around 10%, this slows your forward motion while keeping the engine from stalling, you will find that with this method you will be a lot steadier on a slower corner, dont be too tempted to try this first time on a road, use a large mall car park and do figure eights around 2 obstacles, this is a training technique we use over in England to train new riders.....hope this helps.....

Lucky and Black Its all good you don't have to agree with lowering or not, but lowering the bike reduces lean angles, there fore reducing manuverability at higher speeds. I like t to suggest this is to try different bikes out first. Just cause you got the money to buy a harley don't mean ya got to get one. It can cost thousands to make one be the perfect fit, and still the novice has problems.
I agree one ought to be flat footed, however instead of lowering a bike, one could go and buy a used 500/650 somewhere like a shadow or interceptor that are lower, lighter, bars are closer, practice on that bad boy for a year or two maybe more then get that Harley. There maybe a good chance after she's on the road for few years that sportster seat won't seem as low and the footing that she found hard to do before wont be. Why? because she grew as a rider and has the self confidence so that not everything has to be perfect. Reducing the lean angle on any bike is just not a real good idea, at least it is to me. Dolly may also find that she far more enjoys riding the shadow over the harley for they are user friendly.
Folks I have sat and listened to many ladies start to ride and the first thing they do is get a sportster and then not really ride it, then buy a bigger bike like a roadglide or fatboy and not really ride it, then for somereason go and try a friends shadow or vstar and love it, and then want to get rid of the fat or glide because they can see themselved riding that shadow or vstar, but they don't do it cause they are afraid the husband will be mad if they do.
Its just alot of what I've experenced and had conversations with other lady riders about, we relate to each other differently then we do men, though I do have to say woman trust their husbands more than other woman, but in the end its about finding the right tools that will help you build confidence. You can lower the seat, change the handle bars, put ex clutches on, switch the pipes, the list can go on but some times, its just the bike isn't right and sometimes a different bike make or manufactorer makes all the difference in the world. have a grea tone! "T"

This is what the Zundapp 70cc looked like, but mine was a dark blue one...lol...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=W6kd_pQki_U